I needed a way to make PCI DIO cards compatable with DIY Solid State Relays. Rather than bug Dan to death to alter the software to fit the needs of one guy, I decided to make a board that will invert the outputs of the channels, and breakout the channels in groups of 4 to match my SSRs. After a little testing I believe it will be possible to use it to invert the DIO32 also. I can't say that for a fact as I don't have the DIO32 in hand yet, and the PCBs for the inverter isn't here from either. It works on a breadboard, and will invert a dimmable channel from a standard controller. My DIO card is a MC PCI DIO96 with a double density 100 pin connector. I found a 3' cable on eBay. It has two 50 pin connectors that connect directly to this board. There are 12 RJ45 connectors. Each RJ45 has a set of 4 leds to indicate the status of the channels. I think this will make the use of DIO much easier for me. I was able to find a private source to make the PCBs for $10 each.
The board layout is in protel format. PM me if you'd like a copy.
First, let me reply and say, I have made one very similar, and it does indeed, work like a charm!
second, I may want to pick up a few of these, as its a lotcheaper than doing more myself!
Not a problem. I had John make 10 of them and I only need three for my current configuration. John pointed out that the manufacterer doesn't like 90˚ angles so he spent an hour or so editing them away, then beefed up the power rails and added a power LED. By including it with a larger order he was able to keep the price below $13 each including shipping from AU. Quite a deal!
Jeff
Edit: BTW, I doctored up the original Protel file to account for the needed changes, so that file is available for anyone who would like it.
Last edited on Mon Nov 17th, 2008 11:16 pm by Jeff Millard
Jeff Millard wrote: Not a problem. I had John make 10 of them and I only need three for my current configuration. John pointed out that the manufacterer doesn't like 90˚ angles so he spent an hour or so editing them away, then beefed up the power rails and added a power LED. By including it with a larger order he was able to keep the price below $13 each including shipping from AU. Quite a deal!
Jeff
Edit: BTW, I doctored up the original Protel file to account for the needed changes, so that file is available for anyone who would like it.
I probably mislead when I posted this statement. Mike and I have been sharing in the DIO learning/use/development and idea mill for around a year or so. When I had 10 of them made, I planned for what I would need in the future... and a couple extras if he changed his mind and wanted them. He made his countdown clock using a similar board he designed, so I had an idea he'd come up with some other smooth idea for the board I laid out.
Sorry, but the board I had made aren't for sale. I appologize if my post was misleading.
HI Jeff. I was just taking the easy way out. This board has some interesting uses and if others knew what it could do, you'd be in trouble. I'm going to find someone to burn me a few.
OK, I just got word that Rev. 1 is in the mail from AU. I've been thinking about Rev.2 and I think there's a need to isolate the DC rails from the control. The board is loosely based on a DIY control board and the designer used a dual power design with jumpers. I think this board could be easily altered to have the outputs on a separate source, just to take the load off the PC supply. Driving opto couplers on SSRs is one thing but any other use could really ramp up the current. I'll provide pictures as soon as I have one of these made and connected to some SSR pods.
Hmmmm, 'Start, Programs, Protel' back to work on 2009...
Time to order parts from Mouser and get started on a 2009 Display. I'm thinking arches, and new lights for the Mega tree. It's also time to contact Darryl Brown for a second mega... Need boxes for SSRs and controllers...
PCI DIO, SSR's? OK I'm lost, in simple terms, and please be sure to type slow because I can't read very fast... Please explain these terms and how something like this board of your is put to use.
PCI is a 32bit expansion slot in the back of the computer. Simply put, a semi fast slot to put a card in the back of a PC.
PCI DIO96H Is a 96 channel digital Input/Output expansion card that goes in the PCI slot.
SSR is a Solid State Relay, in this case it is a switch that uses the Output of the DIO card to turn AC voltage on and off.
All put together it will provide 96 channels of on/off control using LOR software.
My issue, and the necessity to have this board stems from the polarity of the voltage that is outputted by the card using LOR software... and the pinout for commonly used printed circuit boards used to make SSRs.
An "on" from the LOR software gives a +5VDC output. The common SSR PCB available from the DoItYourself forums needs the negative wire from a 5VDC source to turn on. It is referred to as "sink" potential or 0V. So you can see that they are backwards from each other. The result is when you sequence an "on" effect, it turns the SSR channel off... and visa-versa. This board has three functions: It inverts the DIO card output to match the Output and the SSR... It has a higher current capacity than the DIO cards +5V output, so it takes the load off of the DIO card... and it pins the outputs to match that of the SSR PCBs.
Upon completion of these boards and and all the wiring it will give me 96 additional channels of on/off control. These channels are mostly used for my Candy Canes, and I plan to used them on PVC 'North Poles' between the arches that will skirt my yard next year.
Here's the first one I made with the LEDs installed. I used two of them in the display this year... but only a few channels on each one. I'm experiencing growing pains right now, so it's time to quit focusing on channel count and start thinking about decorations and display. ...and nice neighbors who want to mass produce the new arches.
I had a similar board for ssr's that used old lighting control software/hardware (prostar) i used DB-9 connectors- guess times are changing now that cat5 is so common
Hi all, I certainly hope this is ok to post here...
I came upon this thread, while talking with Jeff about the ULN2803 buffer boards. I've since gotten two of them, and have them hooked up. Work great!! Since I am going to need at least several more, I talked to Jeff, as well as the gent who had the first group made. He's agreed to have some more made, and so far the response has been very good - about 16 of them committed to. The more we can get, the cheaper the price will be - right now it looks like probably $12 - $15 plus shipping from Australia, which isn't bad, as this is a pretty good chunk of fiberglass. So, if you all would like some, this is your chance...there's a picture of the board above two posts- the only difference will probably be that the silkscreen of the numbers on the RJ45's will not be on there - they were originally Jeff's board order, and since these are good for ALL sorts of different applications, you can map your own order.
If interested, please contact me, and I will put you in touch with how to get your name in on the list.
Roger
Donald Puryear wrote: Would you be interested in selling them in kit form? I would love to have 2.
Last edited on Sun Feb 1st, 2009 04:41 pm by 51fordf2
Jeff or Rodger, Can you post what you found is the cheapest way of making SSR units to go with this setup. (minius the wire to go from board to outlets) I have access to a 96 Channnel PCi card, just wondering what it would cost to add the SSR's per 4 circuits. I am assuming this design uses 4 ciruits per Rj45 jack. Might help people see also total cost to help with more sales. I am thinking of grabbing one for me.
This works with the DIY SSRoz boards over at DIYChristmas, which have 4 SSR's built onto one board. You are right, each RJ45 has 4 signals (along with +5V and ground for an indicator lamp). Based on the BOM from Mouser, the cost to populate the board, is $11.85. And that's for 4 SSR's, complete with indicator LED. If you bought a large quantity, the cost per piece goes down, and you might even cover the shipping... The boards can be gotten, not sure of the cost, but will try to find out - the same gent getting the Buffer Boards made, can supply the SSROz boards, I think. Here's what the board looks like, finished:
There are several other boards out there as well, some with as many as 12 SSR's. I've been collecting "hockey puck" type SSR's, as well as I/O type from Opto22, etc. and have over 80 of them. I try to get them for about $2.00 - $2.50 each with shipping. With 192 channels, I have to keep an eye on the SSR costs, also. The thing to remember, with the ULN2803, the output is "sink", instead of source, so it switches the ground, instead of the +5. The buffer board has provision (and a necessity on the PCI_CIO96 boards!) for a separate power supply. I'm using a 5 amp supply, but I'm going to separate 2A supplies, for each board - I got a whole bunch of old CentreCom boxes, with power supplies for next to nothing, that I'm going to house the boards in/on.
Roger
Last edited on Wed Feb 4th, 2009 01:22 am by 51fordf2
Another note on that SSR board:
It fits nicely in the bottom of a 2 receptacle box.
Break the tabs on the receptacle and hook it up for a nice tight 4 channel enclosure.
The SSROz are the ones I use for this application. John Wilson is who has them made in Hong Kong. He is also the one making the DIO buffer boards. I used the DIY design of placing the SSRs into PVC tubes (pods) They worked great last year. This year, I'm putting them into the PVC "North Poles" and using them to control a bunch of leaping arches.
The DIO card is a Measurement Computing PCI-DIO96H. The "H" isn't a requirement, as the ULN chips carry the load of the LEDs and the Opto couplers. The header on the DIO board is pinned out to the cable, but the order of the channels is convoluted due to the size constraints, single sided board, and order of the pinout from the ribbon cable. It takes good notes to keep it straight when you're laying it out in the sequencer.
Anyone interested in this needs to understand that it results in strictly on/off control. There are no other lighting effects. Any lighting effect applied to the channel will result in the channel being turned on. Consider the need to build your own random pattern to include these channels in the Twinkle effect.
Jeff
Last edited on Wed Feb 4th, 2009 08:18 pm by Jeff Millard
Roger is the contact for this buy. I'm just chiming in 'cause I like to talk... He's posting it here as the "member for one year" Group Buy constraints on DIYC prevent him from doing it there. Here's the BOM for the board...
Just an update - I am waiting on the guy who is getting them made - he's in Australia, and the fires have taken a bit of his time. I'll keep all posted...
In the meantime, I decided to home-etch a couple boards, just to see how tough it would be - I left off the led's, since the plan was for these to be "disposable" once I get the other ones. I was a little worried about the one trace, for the ground as it has to go between the pins on the RJ-45 jack. I'm rather proud of how they turned out! I checked, rechecked, then checked again, before etching, but STILL made an oops - I moved 4 signals over one hole, so I etched some more, but will cut the traces, and jumper the signals in the right spots...grrrrr! Pics, for any interested - just shows that you CAN do some pretty intricate traces. I am using the magazine paper/laser printer method, with muriatic acid/peroxide mix. I'm very happy with it, $5.00 buys a whole gallon of acid, and $.50 buys a bottle of peroxide. Couple gallons for $10, instead of $10 a pint or so.
A decent etch Roger! Nice job. I really wish I didn't have so much on my plate for this year or I'd give it a try. You might want to post links to the etch how-to if you have them...
Jeff Millard wrote: A decent etch Roger! Nice job. I really wish I didn't have so much on my plate for this year or I'd give it a try. You might want to post links to the etch how-to if you have them...
Jeff
Thanks, Jeff...I'm very happy with them.
It's actually a conglomeration of a whole bunch of different "how-to"s but here's a couple, to get someone started:
Usual disclaimers - KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING before attempting this at home. The chemicals are very caustic, can instantly damage certain metals, stink up the house, and inflict chemical burns. ALWAYS use the "triple A" - "Always Add Acid", which means, add the acid to the peroxide, NOT the other way around. That way, any splatter will be peroxide, not acid. Important!!
I am using 2 parts peroxide to 1 part acid. If you have an old aquarium pump laying around, if you use an air stone in the fluid, it works MUCH better/faster. Also helps keep it "fresh". The above boards took between 10 and 15 minutes to etch, while the ferric chloride took well over 1/2 hours.
(didn't see any way to make them links..is there one?? Edit: Oooops, does it automatically!!)
Roger
Last edited on Thu Feb 26th, 2009 03:17 am by 51fordf2
If anyone is interested, adjustments have been made to this board for the second production. I'm going to have another set made, and the quantity will set the price. As of now it will be around $10 plus shipping from AU per bare board. If anyone wants to get in on the run please PM me within the next week. Otherwise I'm going to place the order around next Tuesday. We will try to get a quote and estimate shipping charges before the order. I'll post a PDF of the board when I get home from work tonight.
Jeff Millard wrote: If anyone is interested, adjustments have been made to this board for the second production. I'll post a PDF of the board when I get home from work tonight.
Jeff
Jeff, put me in for two...and I'll save you a little time - here's the pdf of the new DIO Buffer v1.1.
The error in the ULN direction has been corrected, and a shunt has been added to isolate the power source to the SSRs from the ribbon cable. I have 3 of these in service for a 96 channel, and two 24 channel boards.
Jeff Millard wrote: 517-N2550-6002RB (50 Pin Header) 1
571-5520251-4 (Side entry RJ45) 12
660-CF1/4C471J (resistor for power LED) 1
652-4609X-1LF-470 (Resistor Net) 6
604-WP7104GC (Mini Green LEDs) 49
571-1-390261-5 (18 Pin DIP sockets) 6
511-ULN2803A (Darlington Pair DIPs) 6
Jeff
These have been added to the BOM due to the changes made by John Wilson.
538-39890-0302 (2Pin Euro Style screw term) 1
538-22-03-2021 (2Pin vert header) 1
649-65474-002LF (2Pin Tin Shunt) 1
Now, there is a question about the color of the power LED. Is green OK or should we change it to Red? Here's the part number if you want to do that just remember to subtract 1 from the green count.
I have gone and added the list to Mouser and come up with the price of $28.18 per board. If anybody is interested, a group buy of 30 for this board, the price would come down to about $18.40 plus shipping. I would not mind organizing this, just let me know who would be interested.
After work today I'm going to contact John to see how we'll get this order started. Right now I have quantities for a total of 30 boards. That means I have to purchase 11. I do not intend to buy enough parts to populate mopre than 3 of them at this point. So the group buy concept might be limited by that fact.
cenote wrote: I went ahead and did a bunch of "what if" of quantity for the BOM's from mouser. Here's what I found:
1 Kit: $28.18 each
10 kits: $21.87 each
20 kits: $19.08 each
25 kits: $18.40 each
after 25, doesn't matter until 50...
So as long as we get enough for 10, it's going to be worth it.
Hi, Chuck...I'm in for 4 of the boards, and I was planning on populating 2 of them, but could be tempted to do all 4, if we are getting close to the 10 kit number, but not there...that's the biggest savings, from 1 to 10, as opposed to 10 to 20...
Jeff Millard wrote: Now, there is a question about the color of the power LED. Is green OK or should we change it to Red? Here's the part number if you want to do that just remember to subtract 1 from the green count.
I happened to buy several 1000 of reds, and greens...so on my first two boards, I alternated red and green, and I'm using a yellow 5mm for power...looks pretty cool, when it's all blinky-flashy!!
Here's the counts: Me 11, Roger 4, Chuck 2, Gary Funk 3, Donald Puryear 4, Synnie 6. 30...
I emailed John this morning as he was headed to bed. He said he would get a quote sometime in the next day or two. He'll get us a price for the boards and for the shipping for 24 to me, as Synnie is in AU. I'll forward them to the rest of you from here... (on me)
Chuck, I want complete parts for 3 of them, and I might have you get a partial order for the 4th board. I have partys left over from the proto and would like to use them up. If I don't get to counting them by the weekend I'll just skip it and get a complete 4.
I will PM/email all of you as soon as I hear from John.
I guess everybody drop me a PM or email me at chuck(at)jmland(dot)com with final number of parts you want for boards. Shouldn't change the price on color of LED's if some of you want all one color, or mix it up.
I have both and he's right, they're literally identical. I think I switched to the $.79 part because the DIY community bought up all the cheaper ones at one point. I had forgotten about it and never changed it back (or I just blatently copied it from the DIY Wiki...) However when you hit the 50 qty they're priced the same... and there's a larger qty on hand right now. Might be better to avoid the chance for a back order... lead time is a month min... and if you look at the 100 qty... the part from my list is cheaper. If Chuck decides to make SSRs part of this order... 10 boards will be 60 connectors...
Jeff
Last edited on Thu Mar 26th, 2009 12:46 am by Jeff Millard
Hadn't noticed the quantity...the ones we had been buying were non- RoHS standard, and I bought the last 22 they had of those, last week or so, and they were cheaper yet, because they were close-out, discontinued. They did send me two of the new ones two days later, and I hadn't thought about the quantity. These must be the first, hopefully of many they get - I like saving money! Especially since I have bought 200 or so of them, so far...
cenote wrote: OK, I'll throw it out there...
Anybody interested in including parts for SSRoz boards? There running $11.50 per board.
Now everybody logoff...Wives getting upset.
I am making the SSRNeon boards, that David Jones designed at DIYC - I like them because they are very versatile - it uses a cheap fuse holder, as opposed to the enclosed one, plus, it has neutral terminals on the board, instead of the "pigtail" like the Oz one does. It also has a cheap neon bulb for 120 V present, which is nice to have also. It is slightly larger than the Oz, but I like it a lot better. Oh yeah, the board is also designed to use spade terminals, instead of the expensive screw terminals, if you desire, without any changes to the board...hopefully, I'll post a picture of it here:
The neon isn't on this board, yet, but goes next to the screw terminals, "AC Present". And on the other picture, if you look in front of the screw terminals, you'll see the holes for the spade connectors...very cheap design! Especially since I am planning on 256 channels of these, along with the 192 channels of DIO's...Wow, that's WAY too many! But, the neon really lends itself to home-etch...
Since I'm bragging already, here's the DIO SSR's I'll be using - non dimmable, but great for DIO's - again, neutral is on the board. I picked up 250 of the relays, 3 amp!:
Last edited on Thu Mar 26th, 2009 01:13 am by 51fordf2
Time to bump this up. John has contacted me about the production run for the updated board. It's a 30 board order, with 24 coming to me so I can forward them to the folks who wanted them in the US. We will each PayPal John $10 per board to cover his expenses for production and shipping. I'll update this when I get home from work this afternoon. For Chuck Note: I'll PayPal you funds for 6 full parts kits if you are still interested in making a group order. I have no idea how long the order will take, but the first time I did this I had the boards in hand in less than three weeks.
Bad news, just checked the availability on parts, and the IC sockets 571-1-390261-1 are out. Back ordered until 4/27. Should we wait and see what happens?
Disregard the last post...Wrong BOM...There for the ssroz's if anybody is interested.
All parts available for buffer boards. We are about $21.00 each, for parts for 10 boards plus shipping.
So, they have the RJ45 jacks? We had some serious trouble on another order - backordered until JUNE!!
I had to order 100 from Jameco...
BTW, Jameco has the 6p sockets!! At least they did when I ordered MY 100! 10 cents each...if you are going to be building anything with opto's, you might check Jameco...
Chuck - send me info on who/how/where to pay, and shipping, if you can figure it out...
cenote wrote: Bad news, just checked the availability on parts, and the IC sockets 571-1-390261-1 are out. Back ordered until 4/27. Should we wait and see what happens?
What are those for? That's a 6 pin socket. We need an 18 pin socket for U1 through 6. Let me back track this thread and see if I gave you the wrong number...
Got it Gary, I'll wait till boards in for production from john, than drop this order. I'll PM ya with email to use for paypal, and amount. I'll just charge for parts and what actually cost to ship.
So far we have 20 of 30 boards accounted for. I'll post when I hear from the other two folks for the remaining 10 boards (1 in US and 1 in AU)
Chuck,
I got the email with the link to the Mouser Order. I'll look at it in the morning. If you want me to I'll research an alternative part for your 6 pin socket (if it's what you need for the SSROz) I just wanted to let you know that I didn't use them on many of my SSRs. The opto rarely fails so the socket really isn't necessary... it's the Triac that needs to be replaced if it gets shorted for any reason. Look to the LOR controllers to see that DIP sockets aren't used there either. Just an added expense AFAIC... But if you want them, I'm sure there's an alternative vendor's part availablew from Mouser.
This was the best deal I could find, plus, they had the RJ45's, the 524461's for .53 each. The Opto's were .38 each, which isn't that good a deal, I've been paying .25 each, but just to get the others, was worth going with them...
Did you look in the paper catalog, or use the website? It's geared to make you pay more... I'm trying to save Chuck the shipping costs from multiple orders from different vendors...
...and I'm tired... so I'm going to bed. As Chuck said in an earlier post.... the wives are starting to complain... (I didn't get all the laundry done!?!)
Jeff
Last edited on Thu Apr 16th, 2009 02:38 am by Jeff Millard
Got a note from Graeme in AU. He will contact John for his 6 boards. I sent an email to the person about the remaining 4. John said the moment he heard from Graeme he'd place the order so it looks like we're on the way.
Just checked with mouser, and parts are still available for shipping for boards. As of now we are at;
Chuck - 2
Rodger - 2
Jeff - 6
Gary - 3
With shipping, it comes out to be a of cost $22.00 per board, plus drop me a few dollars to have them ship to you. The only finale question will be, what color LED's do you all want? I'll drop the three of you a PM with my email for paypal. Just let me know what color you want me to order, I can make different for everybody if need be. Not a problem being only three of you.
Dan Ancona wrote: I hope you guys talk about this at the mini, I really intrested, but really lost...
Dan - what are you lost about? Ask away, I'm sure you'll get your answer. Here's the way I understand it all - basically, what some of us are doing, is using a standard DIO board - that's a "Digital Input/Output board, that is often used in a computer to monitor, and control equipment, environments, etc. They come in a lot of different number of input/output's, different manufacturers, and different uses. Through software, they can either receive or send out a low voltage, low current signal, both at the same time. A brief example, would be control of a machine that moves a bottle down the assembly line, gets filled with liquid, moves, then gets a label, then moves to the end. This is just an example. The bottle is put in place, where it breaks the beam of an infrared sensor, which acts as a switch, sending a signal back to the computer, through an input (usually a relay), that the bottle is there. An output is then sent out, based on that input, that turns on a motorized conveyor, via a solid state relay. The conveyor moves the bottle down the line, where it trips a mechanical switch. The switch sends another signal, that the bottle is present, an output signal goes out to stop the conveyor, and another output signal goes out to start filling the bottle. There's a sensor under the bottle, that measures weight. When the bottle gets to a predetermined weight, another sensor sends an input signal that the bottle is full, an output signal is sent to stop filling, and another to move the conveyor again When the bottle gets to the label station, an input signal stops it, an output tells the labeler to label it, another input says the label is on, an output turns the conveyor on, when the bottle reaches the end, another switch sends an input signal, that the bottle is at end, and an output signal turns off the conveyor. As I said, this is pretty simplified, but that's one function of a DIO card. They can also be used to monitor heat/cold in a room, and run the air as necessary. There's a LOT of uses for them, in industry.
Now, what WE do is use software, to send output signals, to light our lights, at a specific time, in coordination with music. However, our Solid State Relays, take more current to trigger, than a lot of the DIO boards are capable of providing, plus sometimes an entirely different voltage. Therefore, they have to go through a "buffer", which uses the very low current to trigger a much higher current . Our buffer boards allow us to trigger the SSR's that turn on our lights, with the DIO board, without burning out the channels on the DIO board. We use an optocoupler, which uses very low current, through an led, so the signal changes from electrical, to an optical signal, then back to electrical, keeping the first signal isolated from the second signal. So, you can use 5 volts, 10 milliamps, to signal, say, 12 volts at 500 milliamps, without any danger of the 12 volts 500 milliamps, getting back to the DIO board.
Our buffer boards also "invert" the signal - in other words, the signal comes out of the DIO board as a +5 vdc signal which is called a "source" signal, but when it leaves the buffer board, it's the ground side, that gets turned on or off - called "sink signal". We use that in our home-built solid state relays. Heres a good definition of sink and source:
· Sourcing: A sourcing device provides the power or a positive potential. Sourcing devices "push" the current through the load to ground. Terms used to describe sourcing devices include PNP, Open Emitter, Normally Low, and IEC Positive Logic.
· Sinking: A sinking device provides a path for the current to ground and is not responsible for powering the device. Terms used to describe sinking devices include NPN, Open Collector, Normally High, and IEC Negative Logic.
I'm not really sure why we use sink on our home-made SSR's, unless it's so that Cat5 wires that we have running out to our SSR's only will have one +5 volt line, and the 4 signal lines will just be grounds, when they are "on". Any SSR can work you just need to have the "sink" signal to the "-" connection on the SSR, and +5 volts on all the time to the + post. Hopefully, one of the other guys will pipe in.
The reason I am using a DIO board, is because you can get a lot of channels, fairly inexpensively. I paid $60 for two DIO96 boards, which have 96 channels on each. The DIO is ONLY good for on/off signals, no dimming capability whatsoever, but my display can take advantage of that. So I have 192 channels, with the two DIO cards, but I have to have a buffer board, for every 48 channels, so I have 4 buffers all together. Without the SSR's, I have under $250 wrapped up in the DIO's and buffers, and have 192 channels of on/off. Pretty decent, I think!
If you shop wisely, you can do well on the SSR's, also - I bought 250 store-boughts for $200, and I etch my own boards, to mount them on. So, I'm paying about $1.25 per channel, for on/off, as far as the SSR's go, and $1.30 per channel for DIO and buffers, or about $2.60/channel out to the lights. Not too bad, I don't think...
Here's a pic of my SSR's for the DIO channels:
Now, this is the way I understand it all - I don't think I'm very far off, but if I am, I'm sure Jeff, or Chuck, or someone will correct what I said. I hope it makes sense, and answers your question, or enlightens you a bit...
Thanks a LOT, Chuck and Jeff, for allowing me to be a part of this - gotta love it!!
Quite simply put, this board connects Measurement Computing DIO expansion cards, to readily available homemade Solid State relays.
LOR software will control DIO cards on/off only. There are no lighting effects other than on and off...
Each board has 12 sockets with 4 channels in each for 48 channels. 2 of these boards and a 96 channel DIO card are a perfect match. The ribbon cable for the 96 channel card matches this controller exactly. The problem is, it's been 6 months since I've seen a MC PCI DIO board on eBay...
John has full payment for the order and will be placing it when the manufacterer open's Monday.
Jeff
Last edited on Mon Apr 20th, 2009 01:28 pm by Jeff Millard
Jeff Millard wrote: Quite simply put, this board connects Measurement Computing DIO expansion cards, to readily available homemade Solid State relays.
LOR software will control DIO cards on/off only. There are no lighting effects other than on and off...
Each board has 12 sockets with 4 channels in each for 48 channels. 2 of these boards and a 96 channel DIO card are a perfect match. The ribbon cable for the 96 channel card matches this controller exactly. The problem is, it's been 6 months since I've seen a MC PCI DIO board on eBay...
Jeff
Thanks, Jeff! But, it should be mentioned, this card will also work with the National Instruments DIO96 card, and they can be found fairly often on ebay. You DO have to do some creative wiring of the cables, to make the channels match up, and all the cables work together, but surely worth the effort, if a Measurement Computing card can't be found. I guess I'm saying it's a great multi-use board!
51fordf2 wrote: Thanks, Jeff! But, it should be mentioned, this card will also work with the National Instruments DIO96 card, and they can be found fairly often on ebay. You DO have to do some creative wiring of the cables, to make the channels match up, and all the cables work together, but surely worth the effort, if a Measurement Computing card can't be found. I guess I'm saying it's a great multi-use board!
Roger
Yes, but the National Instruments cards will NOT work with LOR. The software requires that the DIO card be compatable with Measurement Computing's InstaCal software. PCI NI boards do not. There has been some discussion that the ISA NI boards can be addressed by InstaCal, but I have not had a chance to test that.
The extension boards were a perfect mach for the cases I assembled. Thank you very much!!!
Yes, but the National Instruments cards will NOT work with LOR. The software requires that the DIO card be compatable with Measurement Computing's InstaCal software.
The extension boards were a perfect mach for the cases I assembled. Thank you very much!!!
Jeff
Ahhhh...ok, never mind....
I didn't realize that, I'm still too cheap for the LOR software, and using the freebies. Does LOR update their software very often? Maybe it's an alternative??
OK, I want to discuss a little about the cost of using this stuff. A new PCI DIO96 card from Measurement Computing is $269. The high density cable is $50. This board costs anywhere from $35 to $45 to make. Solid state relays are around $7 each to make. You need 24 of them for a full 96 channels. That equates to $522 at the cheapest. Or $5.44 per channel. I got the MC board from eBay for $75. That made it $3.42 per channel.
I just want to thank you for taking the time to write that post. It was informative, thank you. I'm still a little lost, mostly because I am the type of person that needs to "see" these types of project.
Dan - you're welcome, hope it helped a little. Tried to make it as clear as I could. They are a little complicated, until you figure out what they are, what they do, and how they do it. The nice think is, with all the info here, and at DIYC, most of that is done for you - just need to know how to hook it all up. And Jeff's buffer board makes it really easy, if you have a MC DIO card. It's a little tougher using the NI board, but, if the NI doesn't work on LOR software, it's moot. I tend to forget that I'm a "visitor" here on LOR, as I use a different software to drive my lights. Not better or worse, just different...
oh yeah, you DON'T want to see MY project!! I used a whole bunch of different cabling, none of which is meant for the DIO card, OR the buffer board, so it really looks like a mess...one wire into two, then into a different two, with those wires going to two different boards - I mean, some of the first wire's going to one board, some to the other, and vice-versa, then they get spliced into ribbon cable - it's a nightmare, but it works great!! :o)
Roger
Last edited on Wed Apr 22nd, 2009 06:40 am by 51fordf2
The production is underway. I rec'd an email with the artwork. I am away from a place where I can view it, but will try to make sure everything is good as soon as I can.
They've always been fast for me - once, I remembered a part about 20 after I had placed the order on-line - called, but it was already too late. They had already started the "pick"!
No hurry, chuck, as we have a rather long wait on the boards. Don't kill yourself. Besides, I just got my LEDTricks panels, and have 768 led's to solder...
Dan Ancona wrote: OK, I'll say it. I'm jealous! Hope to learn at the mini for next year.
Don't be, this is my first custom build. Just riding the coat tales of some wonderful others on here.
Parts are all sorted...Just need to box and send. Should be in mail by Friday.
P.s. over a thousand little pieces, you would think they would slip and throw an extra Led in, NOT
Man Oh Man, that was close! Chuck PM'd me about my eBay MC PCI-DIO96H SIPSCKT bid, and I got it with just 1 min 25 secs to go. I had SMS alerts turned on for my cell, but it was in another part of the house. I was chatting on the house phone and not paying attention to the time. I hung up, opened Internet Explorer and saw the PM just in time to up my bid to an amount worthy of a divorce case. Got the card for $52 plus shipping so it came in just under $70. New from MC that card is $360. The bad thing is... the 100 pin high density cabel for it is almost as much as the ebay sale...
Not clear - are you sending to Jeff, and him send it out with the boards, or are you sending directly to us?
Lot's of work, ain't it? Man, I hope you realize how much we appreciate it.
Yeah, they have the "pick" down to a gnat's-ass! The only mistake ever made, was MY mistake!! 680 KΩ instead of 680 Ω. When I got it, I asked if they could just drop the right ones in the mail, so I didn't have to pay $8 for a $5 order...they insisted on sending them to me for free, not charging me even for the resistors!! I told them it was MY mistake, and they said "no problem". So I told them to send them Postal, as it would cost less, and he said no, I'd get them sooner UPS. Got them the next day, N/C! Cost them $6.75 to send them that way.
Needless to say, I buy Mouser whenever I can!!
Roger
cenote wrote: Parts are all sorted...Just need to box and send. Should be in mail by Friday.
P.s. over a thousand little pieces, you would think they would slip and throw an extra Led in, NOT
Last edited on Thu Apr 30th, 2009 03:29 am by 51fordf2
Not clear - are you sending to Jeff, and him send it out with the boards, or are you sending directly to us?Sending the parts directly to you. Boards are being sent directly to you when there done too.
The parts are being shipeed from Chuck to each person. The DIO boards are coming to me from AU, then the US shipping will be taken care of by me. I don't have everyone's address yet. I'll check my list and PM requests for updates.
Now if we could just get ahold of a DIO 32... or a couple dozen of them... (I'd be happy with protos Dan...)
I'm a newbie to LOR and animated Christmas lighting in general and am starting to feel comfortable enough to start reading other forums, DIY was a natural first. This message thread was totally cool - my background for a lot of years was real-time test and measurement. The technical and engineering expertise in this thread is pretty awesome!
Am I getting this right? A 96 channel DIO card (ebay) $50 to $75, 4 channel SSR's (built from your custom kit) at about $7ea and the overall on/off channel cost comes in at about $3.50/channel - and LOR will control the channels?
Talk about a day late... and missing the boat!
Would it be possible to get a list of DIO cards that work with LOR, and the SSR's (I can do eby and search the local surplus stores). The place to order the SSR boards from, along with a BOM?
Am I getting this right? A 96 channel DIO card (ebay) $50 to $75, 4 channel SSR's (built from your custom kit) at about $7ea and the overall on/off channel cost comes in at about $3.50/channel - and LOR will control the channels?
Would it be possible to get a list of DIO cards that work with LOR, and the SSR's (I can do eby and search the local surplus stores). The place to order the SSR boards from, along with a BOM?
Steve
You also need to make a Buffer board. There running about $45.00 for 48 channels, along with a cable to go from the PCI card to Buffer board, also $55.00 for 48 channels. I am sure Jeff or I will be glad to re post the complete list of BOM, it is also posted in this thread I think. Will look late, off to work I go.
sjmiller wrote: Am I getting this right? A 96 channel DIO card (ebay) $50 to $75, 4 channel SSR's (built from your custom kit) at about $7ea and the overall on/off channel cost comes in at about $3.50/channel - and LOR will control the channels?
Steve
Steve, the biggest thing about the SSR's, is what you can find. There are a lot of SSR's out there, that can be made to work, you just have to find them. Most of the "store-bought" ones, are 3-24 volt dc. They come in a lot of physical different sizes. There are a lot of different ones that mount on printed circuit boards, up to fairly large ones, about 1 1/2" X 2", that are referred to commonly as "hockey pucks". The pucks are usually higher current, up to 40 amp, and even more. The circuit board mounted ones are usually 1 to 5 amp. Depending on what type of lights you are running, matters to the current. Mini lights are about .33 amps per 100-bulb string. Led's are about 1/8 of that, so you can run about 8 led strings for every mini string (assuming same number of bulbs). You really want to have at least double the current capability on the SSR than the load you are putting on it, but a little more is better - most seem to go at least 3 times. The SSR's can heat up under load and fail. Almost all of mine run one string of lights, and I run at least a 2 amp SSR. I do have a few 1 amp relays, but try not to use them unless I have to, and most of mine are 3 amp. I do have some windows that are next to each other, that will have both run off the same SSR, so two strings per.
I lucked out, and found 250 brand new SSR's for under a buck each. But, I was pretty lucky! Usually, if I can find them for $1.50 and under, I'm happy. But, I'm out of the race, now, as 250 is more than I'll ever need!
You can also make your own, from scratch, even drilling and etching the circuit board. It's pretty much for the die-hard, but can be a lot of fun. That's how I do mine - home-etch. I etch for both the circuit board mounted ones, and the ones that you build your own from scratch. The scratch builts of the SSROz work out to about $10 a board, or $2.50 a channel. To get down to $7.00 a board of 4, is pretty tough to do. But it can be done. I think my pcb mounted boards are costing me under $5.00 each. BUT, I really shop for all the parts, and buy a lot of bulk whenever I can. I bought 880 fuse holders that I use, for about $10, when they are $.15 each, or $7.50 when you buy 50 at Mouser. Quite a savings. If you've read through this thread, you've seen pictures of some of the boards I have built, and made. I use the SSRNeon instead of the SSROz, because I can use the penny fuse holders, instead of the buck fifty ones. That's $1.49 less each board. Since I will have capability of 700 channels, that's 175 boards, if I used them all, or $260 savings just in the fuse holders alone. You can buy a nice, tricked out namebadge with that!
All these parts are relatively easy to find, and even easy to find fairly cheap, if you watch carefully. However, the buffer board isn't an off the shelf item, and has to be "custom". I have several I got from Jeff earlier this year in a trade, plus I made several of my own, without the fancy leds and stuff. They work, and that's the important thing. So, it's imperative that you get a buffer board, if you go the DIO route. I'm not sure, but often, on these "group buys", that extras are bought, to get the numbers up for a better deal. Jeff led this coop, and if you are interested, you might PM him, and see if there are any extra boards. That's how I got my first two. But I think even with the MC DIO96 card you have to have them, so I would get two, enough for one DIO96 card, even if you don't know if you'll use it. It's far better to have it, and not use it, than need it, and not have it! And these are really, really nice boards!
Here's the BOM for the boards (pretty sure it's the current BOM, with the addition of the power jumpers):
517-N2550-6002RB (50 Pin Header) 1
571-5520251-4 (Side entry RJ45) 12
660-CF1/4C471J (resistor for power LED) 1
652-4609X-1LF-470 (Resistor Net) 6
604-WP7104GC (Mini Green LEDs) 49
571-1-390261-5 (18 Pin DIP sockets) 6
511-ULN2803A (Darlington Pair DIPs) 6
538-39890-0302 (2Pin Euro Style screw term) 1
538-22-03-2021 (2Pin vert header) 1
649-65474-002LF (2Pin Tin Shunt) 1
Good luck, and if even if you don't take the "DIY" plunge, you'll learn a lot by going over the DIY forums. I work with electronics every day, but I still learn something new almost every day, here, and at doityourselfchristmas.com. Keeps the brain cells (the ones I have left!!) active, and the juices flowing...
Roger
Last edited on Mon May 4th, 2009 02:20 pm by 51fordf2
sjmiller wrote: Am I getting this right? ...LOR will control the channels?
Steve
Yes and no... Yes LOR will control the channels. on and off. No other lighting effects are supported. I plan to make another board for myself in a year or so, that will mate to a couple DIO32 boards when I have them in hand and can test them. They will support all lighting effects. That will break out to 64 channels.
By the way. These boards are being co-opped as a not for profit thing. The proto was an out of pocket expense for me, and I pretty much gave some of them away or traded up just to see how others would use them. This group buy was made so the folks who wanted to play with the idea... could (The DIO board idea...) Chuck was kind enough to do the work of ordering and sorting parts and all who showed interest were given a chance to participate. After the DIO32 becomes available, along with all the daughter boards for it... I won't be making any more of this stuff public. I don't want to undercut Light-O-Rama's business plans in any way. This type of DIY isn't what I think the company planned when they said "LOR DIY"
Thanks for the responses! I made the decision in Dec. '08 to upgrade my static Christmas display to LOR. I started out thinking moving from my preprogrammed 6 channel controller to an 8 channel LOR controller would be all I would do. Once I bought the starter kit and began programming song sequences, 8 wasn't enough, then 16 wasn't enough, then 32 - I bought 48 channels - still not enough.
As others here have alluded to - the wife didn't quite go ballistic when I bought three controller kits to assemble - but I still hear about it. My savings for buying kits on sale isn't the same as her saving money from buying stuff on sale (honey I got three kits for the price of two fully assembled controllers)
On the practicle side of programming my display - 29 channels are used for on/off 30/60/100 light strings, it's a shame to burn a controller channel. That is where I saw the beauty of using DIO (buffer, SSR's) in this thread for sequencing on/off features - and the full featured LOR controller for the channels I want to use enhanced lighting effects.
Being a newbie - I wasn't aware of LOR working on putting out a DIO, is that something due to be released in the near future?
My observation from hanging out on these forums for the last five months is that except for us newbies everyone is pretty advanced, and will take the time to answer basic questions!
sjmiller wrote: ...I wasn't aware of LOR working on putting out a DIO, is that something due to be released in the near future?
It's actually a lot more than a DIO controller. One of the discussions about it is here. Somewhere in that thread there's a link to the Preliminary Manual. Many of the folks who want the thing want it for it's servo capabilities. I just want it for the DIO control, so I can use this system with it and build the A/C portion of the control into the decorations (Place the SSRs inside the PVC for the "North Poles" etc...)
$149 for a 32 channel controller is perfect for my needs... but... the completed DIO system going my way will cost more than purchasing CTB-16PC kits... So, it's all in what you need to do the job rather than the cost. I did the proto for this idea out of pocket. I'm sure I could have gotten several more 16 channel controllers for what I have invested in this. My goal wasn't to save money... just to improve the way I do things in my display. I PM'd you about the leftover bare proto boards. I will look into what I have left after I've completed the assembly of my 6 boards... and taken care of the folks who already asked for the ones I already have assembled.
But the fact remains that some folks who got involved in this recently are getting a break in the cost per channel by using this board, DIY SSRs and a card bought cheap on eBay. If LOR didn't have plans to make a bunch of daughterboards for the controller due out soon... I'm sure I would have made a few more designs of this controller.
Jeff
EDIT: I looked and didn't see the link for the Prelim. So here it is...
Last edited on Wed May 6th, 2009 04:29 pm by Jeff Millard
Thanks for the info and the link to the preliminary manual for the LOR DIO.
When I downloaded the LOR demo in December - I was convinced all I needed was 8 channels. Here I sit with 43 of my 48 channels already used/programmed - and I only added 8 mni-trees (3,200 minilights) to my display.
I was just thinking Tim Tool Time Allen - bigger is better. And there he is on the Tonight Show!
The manufacture is complete. John said it was too close to ship today, but he would put them in the mail tomorrow. I have shipping packs already labeled and ready to go. I'll distribute them as soon as they are in my hands.
I rec'd my 2nd 96 channel board in the mail today. Plugged it up and it works perfectly. I also placed a bid on a CIO 48 so I have something to keep at the campground permanently.
I will settle the protos I've promised out, and see what is left after I have 7 boards assembled for myself. The rest will be offered up in this thread.
Thanks to everyone for the help, and interest. You folks made this easy and fun...
Boards came in from Australia last evening. They look great and all shipped out this morning to Gary, Roger, Donald and Chuck... Keep your eyes on the mailbox.
Jeff
PS I'll build one of them this weekend and test it Sunday when I get home from the Campground, just to be sure...
I have one partially assembled. Everything but the LEDs. Be very careful when you install the shunt and the 50pin header, as they are both very tight fits. Tomorrow when we get home I'll finish the LEDs and connect it to the PC to test all the channels and be sure it's all OK. I really like the fact that I can connect it to a separate Power Supply if I want.
I got one complete. Everything's good. The channel count reflects what's printed on the board. You'll see that on the 0 to 23 side th SSRs are in reverse order. I just made a cheat sheet that gives the correct order to go counter clockwise around the board. There's no set rule here, but I just recognized it better that way as it behaves just like a DIY Olsen board.
I'd suggest soldering the LEDs in forst if you want them to line up perfectly.
I also connected it to a separate 5VDC power supply by removing the shunt. That worked perfectly. I really look forward to having the time to make a set of these into a fully controllable string of C9s.
Thanks to John Wilson for the PCB manufacture, Chuck Note for the parts order co-op, Roger for the support and motivational energy, and Gary, Donald and Graeme for participating. To those who were interested in the leftovers, I'll compile what I need and what I'll have left, over the next week or two. I've already committed on two of the assembled protos. I won't part with any of the new boards until I have my 7 assembled. That will hopefully leave 3, as long as I don't make any mistakes.
Now to drop $ for the high density 100pin cable. I sure wish I could find a sub or some connectors.
Here's a couple pictures of the adapter built from two 37pin DSub connectors and a chopped up 50pin SCSI cable, used to connect two 24 channel DIO boards to the buffer. Steve was wondering if purchasing 24 channel boards would work. It just takes a little solder cup work and a steady hand.
cenote wrote: Wow, nice job on adapting. Haven't even put my stuff together yet.
Ditto on the nice job, Jeff!!
shame on you, Chuck!! Only 214 days left until Christmas!!
I went ahead and bought parts for my other two boards, and have all 4 new ones together. With my original two, I'm now "capable" of 3 DIO96 cards, or 288 channels of on/off. With the 256 Firegod dimming channels, that's 544, and when I get the wireless Helix done, I'll have an even 800 channels. A lot of those are going to be used with just single lights, like spotlights on inflatables, wall washes, and wireforms, such as stars and words. But, quite a few will be for other goodies. So, that's a possibility of over 60,000 lights. Whew!!! Guess I'm going to have to concentrate on LED sooner than I had planned - I can't imagine 180 amps with 600 strings all lit at once! The only advantage is that the wireless will allow me to have a bunch across the street at the shop, and it has it's own 200 amp service, as does the house. So even if I did use 600 strings, I'd have them pretty split between the two, so maybe only 100 amps at most on each side of the street. Oh yeah, make sure I subtract the 4 cords I have running into the neighbors basement, that they don't know about...
You'll be surprised how easily they'll go together - this is a great board, and with the new jumper, even better than the last one, which is great, too!
Oh yeah, if you don't get them done, Chuck, I'll send you my home-etch ones...no blinky-bling on the card, but rock-solid.
Here's the house they're going on...built in 1891, the yard is mine, too...
Mega tree is going on the lower deck, 14' across, and will be about 5 feet below the top of the roofline - about 30 feet. Oh yeah....see the Bellagio's on the front porch??!!??
Thanks again, guys!
Roger
Last edited on Tue May 26th, 2009 03:56 am by 51fordf2
cenote wrote: Wow, nice job on adapting. Haven't even put my stuff together yet.
Thanks! Don't feel bad Chuck. I've only had time to assemble one of the new ones.
Due to a windfall, I now have three 96 channel boards. After I adapt the Halloween skulls to a 50 pin SCSI cable I'm going to sell the two 24 channel boards and a proto buffer board that's had some repairs to the traces... I also got an ISA 48 channel board. It pins out identically to the 96 channel boards.
Like Roger said, we better get moving. It'll be Christmas before you know it.
Yippee... assembled one of the boards tonight, and works no problem 48 new blinky lights...at least all the led's turn on and off when the should. test firing the ssr's tomorrow night.
One note, I screwed up the one solder joint , not sure if I over heated, the jumper pin no longer exist. had to solder a wire from cable pin to point after jumper. Had problems getting the pins to go threw the hole, that might of done it. The solder around the hole actually chipped off while pushing pins threw. Oh well, still got it to work.
cenote wrote: Yippee... assembled one of the boards tonight, and works no problem 48 new blinky lights...at least all the led's turn on and off when the should. test firing the ssr's tomorrow night.
One note, I screwed up the one solder joint , not sure if I over heated, the jumper pin no longer exist. had to solder a wire from cable pin to point after jumper. Had problems getting the pins to go threw the hole, that might of done it. The solder around the hole actually chipped off while pushing pins threw. Oh well, still got it to work.
Yeehaw! Great feeling, ain't it??!!
If the led's are blinking, the signal will get out. I'm sure your SSR's, will be just fine and dandy!
I thought I had mentioned that I had to drill out the header pin holes, but maybe I didn't. The header and shunt fit WAS mentioned by Jeff, and I meant to mention that I drilled mine out a bit, as the first header was VERY tough to get in. It's very probable that the jumper had the same problem, but since I have 3 DIO's and 6 buffer boards running together, I have separate power supplies for them. Just personal pref. So I didn't use the jumper. It's really, really hard to overheat a trace, and have it come off, but pushing a big pin through a small hole, will do it very easily. I wouldn't suspect it was your soldering, but too small holes. If the solder chipped off, the trace itself came apart, and popped from the board. If that's the worst you had, you're in great shape! The jumper is great, if you will be changing your mind, which is very possible, but if you know you never will, perhaps a solid wire would be best there, unless you have very small drills. I just happen to.
Glad it's together, Chuck!!
I'm now thinking very hard about changing my whole plan! I originally had plans for my NI DIO96 boards, and two FireGod controllers. I have now gotten involved with a new wireless controller, that's pretty darn cool. I was going to run it, along with a DIO, and the FireGod boards, but the way it's set up, probably won't run very well. So, I'll be getting 4 of the controllers, for 512 channels, and probably getting rid of all the rest. The nice thing about it is that I have a shop across the street from my house. Being wireless, I can do the shop. Plus, there's only one other house on my side of the street, and they put up some lights. And, there's only one house next to my shop. So, I can run 512 channels, between my house, the two other houses, and the shop! And all be synchronized wirelessly. Just imagine, when you turn the corner to my street, both sides of the road from corner to corner, in full synch!! Now, to see if it all comes together...
In the words of MLKJr, "I have a dream!!"
Let us know how the SSR's test out!
R
Last edited on Thu May 28th, 2009 06:01 am by 51fordf2
Jeff Millard wrote: The channel count reflects what's printed on the board. You'll see that on the 0 to 23 side th SSRs are in reverse order. I just made a cheat sheet that gives the correct order to go counter clockwise around the board.
Jeff
Little confused, hooked up to SSR and works, but kind of backwards. Is this what you mean jeff? When buffer turns on channel 0, ssr channel 4 works, when buffer chan 1 is on, ssr board #3 flips...etc
yep, but on the opposite side of the board they work in order. I didn't alter the order, due to the way MC set up their 50 pin header. Had I tried to get them so 0-3 was SSR 1 1-4 I would have needed to make a multilayer board to maintain the small footprint. All it takes to correct it is to make a cross reference table and put the right channel.
My simple statement is that since I decided to jump into a fully animated display for 2009 (2nd year) - everyone on the LOR forum has been helpful. I have two of my three CTB16Kpcv1 kits built and tested.
I am doing a DIY project - and everyone is great with both advice and how to proceed.
This is the way things should work, not the exception.
You bet it does! I have two of my LOR controllers assembled and tested, one to go. This project is one step closer to completion (planning on 48ch of DIO for 2009).
I'm so glad you guys are getting something useful out of these boards. Congrats on a successful build! When I get my dirty little hands on a couple DIO 32 boards we'll have to see what we can com up with to interface them too.
I've been stocking up on spools of SPT-2, I'm moving from 6 channels last year to about 100 channels this year and will need to build a lot of extension cords. I can't find the vampire plugs and receptacles at any of the local hardware stores. Looking at what they do carry - it would be cheaper for me to wait until the holiday season starts and buy 6 foot extension cords ($1.67 last year) and splice to extend them.
Any good source for the vampire plugs and receptacles? Or is there a better way to do this?
Thanks Jeff for your insight 
