With the price of the Light o rama controllers, I am just curious why the software cant be more user friendly, like Vixen. Is there a way to use vixen to run my LOR controller. I am new at this but within one day I feel I had vixen mastered. Now I need to drop a hundred dollars for software that i feel is generic. I am not knocking the creator of this software, but there has to be an easier way to draw lines easier like vixen, insert audio into a sequence. I have been playing with the demo version for about 3 days and feel that i have gotten no where. I hate the software as of right now. When i run my mouse over the icons it doesnt even tell me what each symbol is all the time. For example i created a musical sequence and then did the tap thing i have to say i like that but i want the option to tap while i am watching the song as it is going along in the sequence. Maybe I have bitten off more then I can chew. I am just hopeing someone can save me and tell me I can use vixen.
Maybe the creator shhould do a full up demo of how to use the program instead of writing in this forum then waiting for a response. XMUS from DIY did a 16 part video on how to use vixen and it helped out alot. You would think For the price of the software that a simple how to video on everything could be afforded. But maybe I have bitten off more then i can chew.
Last edited on Sun Feb 1st, 2009 09:38 pm by lerchcon
Your other point on the "mouse over" options with the buttons, the demo version is based on revision 1.x of the software (can't remember the exact variant). When you purchase the software, you will be able to upgrade to the latest version, currently 2.1.6, which does support the "mouse over" options on the buttons.
Thanks, I just cant seem to figure this program out though, maybe i am just slow= ). It could be the superbowl keeping me busy too. Anyhow I created a fresh sequence now I cant seem to figure out how to add the audio to the sequence. I also created a music sequnce and cant figure out how to get the graph back to start creating the sequence, you would think there would be a tab for adding audio once you create a new sequence. Maybe I just need to be patient. But thanks for the help, I guess I will give it a try.
So when I purchase the software it is more user frindly like vixen? If so why cant they make the demo to make me want to buy this? It would help me out more trying to figure out if it is a hobby I want to pursue.
When you create a sequence you either create a musical sequence OR an animation sequence. If you select Musical you will be asked for the audio file. Then it will basically ask you for how you want to put timings in.
I don't know how many here have experience with both vixen and LOR, so you may not get much in the way of solid comparisons.. The reason that the demo is currently out of sync has to do with logistics on getting to a licensed version S2.. Hopefully before June or July, they will get all the infrastructure in place to distribute license keys to current owners, and there will be a demo level of the S2 software package, hopefully not too long after. However, if you download the S2 help file, you can see the different licensing levels. If you buy the full package now, you will get the advanced license once they convert over. I'm guessing that the advanced license will cost considerably more once they make it through the license conversion...
there are just a few things I would like to see differnet and maybe they are in the bought version. But would you buy a car without testdriving the one you are to buy. Or would you test drive a porche and buy a lexus.
The reasons I really like vixen is the way you can hold the cotrol key and make a line for your sequence wihtout having to click each individual box.
I like how you can just go to create a sequence and then just add the audio that way.
what is the purpose of creating a sequence with animation without music?
I also like how in vixen I can take a picture of my house, which makes it alot easier to use in the animation window for highlighting the channels.
I cant get the graph once the audio is created all i have is the tap thing i created? Thanks to all who have posted here, it helps out alot.
I read in the DIY forum that dan maybe working with the creatorr of VIXEN to be able to bring the two together, so you can use a combination of the boards. So If that is the case why not get with the creator of vixen, and offer it starting out now for a price, all you would have to do is grandfather those that have already been using the software, or those who have purchased it. because i feel IMO it is a much better program, and would be worth me spending the money. Now I am up on the ropes as to whether or not i want to do this project, if the software is going to be a nightmare I dont have the time to spend on all the more sequencing. But I am new at this too, so who knows
Unfortunately, I don't think licensing model changes are fun for either side.. I don't think anybody likes the current demo version situation, but I understand why it currently is what it is. Nobody intended for be this way for as long as it has been either.
I'm not sure if parts of what you are talking about is sequence editor, or animation window.. The sequence editor allows shift selections of ranges, and keyboard shortcuts that make most operations against cells very fast to lay out.
With LOR, if you start as a musical sequence, you can change the media (audio or video) file at will, but it does not supply any ability to insert/edit audio within the program. It is very much focused on the light control side. As for animation sequences, without any music, there are definitely uses. I have one that is my background sequence, that turns on some items that run through the whole show. I also have one that plays from the end of the show to the morning, for security lighting, with just a little visual interest. I've got a couple of other uses for animation sequences as well. There are also features like loops, that allow you to repeat sections of the sequence a number of times, and even allow for changes in speed on each pass. Those don't make sense to me in musical situations, as you would be out of time with the music.
As for the S2 animation window, it does allow for background photos, and will optionally drop the brightness and contrast to simulate night time. The biggest limit on the S2 animation window is that it is still a lite brite style display.. However, you can use S2 with Holiday Light Designer, that allows for vector drawing on the image, and has tools for mini trees and mega trees.
If the graph you are talking about is the waveform display of the audio, unfortunately, I don't think many of the users remember much about troubleshooting that. Though I think it was sort of problematic in S1. In fact, if the demo is based on 1.5.x, instead of 1.6.x, there probably isn't even a waveform display.. S1 is also notorious for not allowing you to drag timing events, which works well in S2.
While it is not perfect, S2 has a beat wizard tool, that works well for automaticaly inserting timings in beat with the music, as long as it has a fairly consistent tempo. Personally, I've been using some open source audio analysis tools to determine timings, and then formatting the data appropriately to insert into the S2 XML file. But that method is not for everyone, and has its own issues. Personally, once you get past figuring out how you like to set up your timing marks, the next steps to productively sequence are much easier.. Back when I was using S1, I generally just set up a grid at 0.05 seconds or so, and figured that it was close enough for the purposes, as any effect can easily be applied across however many cells are needed to get the right length.
But even after two years, I would not say that I have mastered all the tools that are available that can help sequence easier, or better. But I am getting better in my sequences. I'd worry about a software package that you can master in a day. One might discover that it doesn't have enough tools available for things you can do once you get past the basics...
I dont think that I necessarily mastered the program, but I did have a great understanding as to how to set up a particular sequence. I liked the fact that I was able to get it done on my own, without any help from others, or having to wait for replies to my questions. The videos helped alot too, when I had a question I would just go to youtube, and look at the videos that were supplied. It made it alot easier to have a visual aide, rather then a written one. Like I said I am knocking anyone, and I would like to take this time to thank you for at least humoring me with a response. I think I will just have to break down and buy the software to see thedifferences. I will buy it in the next couple of weeks and see if what you say is true. I just in themeantime will not use the version that I have, because by the sounds of it the bought version is what I am talking about, just hard to explain. Thanks again for your time
lerchcon wrote: there are just a few things I would like to see differnet and maybe they are in the bought version. But would you buy a car without testdriving the one you are to buy. Or would you test drive a porche and buy a lexus.
The reasons I really like vixen is the way you can hold the cotrol key and make a line for your sequence wihtout having to click each individual box.
Its easier with LOR, just select the tool and drag the mouse button.
I like how you can just go to create a sequence and then just add the audio that way.
what is the purpose of creating a sequence with animation without music?
So you can have an animation without music. say for a background sequence, or something between shows.
I also like how in vixen I can take a picture of my house, which makes it alot easier to use in the animation window for highlighting the channels.
Can do with LOR2
I cant get the graph once the audio is created all i have is the tap thing i created? Thanks to all who have posted here, it helps out alot.
I read in the DIY forum that dan maybe working with the creatorr of VIXEN to be able to bring the two together, so you can use a combination of the boards. So If that is the case why not get with the creator of vixen, and offer it starting out now for a price, all you would have to do is grandfather those that have already been using the software, or those who have purchased it. because i feel IMO it is a much better program, and would be worth me spending the money. Now I am up on the ropes as to whether or not i want to do this project, if the software is going to be a nightmare I dont have the time to spend on all the more sequencing. But I am new at this too, so who knows
IMHO , as a user of both Programs(I use Vixen AND LOR in my display), I am doing the opposite, and merging all of my DIY things to work with LOR. all of my Relays I used with 595 are now on DIO cards controlled by LOR. I feel their software is so much more powerful and easier to use.
pixeldigger wrote: IMHO , as a user of both Programs(I use Vixen AND LOR in my display), I am doing the opposite, and merging all of my DIY things to work with LOR. all of my Relays I used with 595 are now on DIO cards controlled by LOR. I feel their software is so much more powerful and easier to use.
I concur with Mike on this one. I've done both for about three years now and LOR S2 is much easier for me. However, I started with LOR 1 and used it primarily for my display. So I've learned LOR as I used it, and as it was developed. I can see where someone who's used Vixen all along could've gotten used to it thereby making LOR seem more difficult, but there are many things that make LOR easier to use. The most obvious thing is the ability to place an addressed controller anywhere in the network. All the Olson and Renard controllers have to placed in sequencial order. The use of shift registers rather than addressed PICs is the issue.
LOR's use of tracks and being able to have different timings in each one, the ability to copy timings, and to easily move channels around... the options to set up new channels and automattically assign them to controllers, the channel config editor. Start and pause play during editing using the spacebar, lighting effects like twinkle and shimmer that can be dimmed, 3 styles of interactive control available with a simple firmware upgrade. Several wizards for creating timings, or placing effects a long the time line such as a tapper... a VU wizard that can monitor left or right channels or both, a wizard that can find the beat and place multiples of it as timings or effects. And that's just some of the stuff. I had intended to convert to all DIY hardware at one point about 2 years ago. I went as far as to become a Moderator on DIYC, then bought a bunch of hardware and built a complete DIY system including Brian's 595 Olsen Co-Op board, 2 Grinches, Ren-T, Ren-C, 10 Ren 24's, a PIC programmer and about 50 SSROz boards and a LEDTricks. Then I got lucky and was included in the S-2 Beta. Since then I've done like Mike and changed the SSRs over to DIO control, and bought 2 more LOR controllers. All the DIY hardware has been boxed up and put away, and I only use Vixen now for the LEDTricks sequences.
There is a way to use Vixen if you can't see the myriad of advantages of S-2 over Vixen. You can place the Firmware that activates DMX control on the LOR controllers and use a DMX dongle with Vixen to control them. Several people have done this to prove that it works OK...
Jeff
____________________ Evan... Are you at home resting yet? I'm very glad you're feeling better!
It sounds like LOR2 is a great program, like I said when I have the money I will just have to break down and buy it. Jeff I understand some of what you typed but I am confused on the technical mumbo, I am a newbie and that is probably the easiest reason for this post, I am just learning and I am the kind of guy that gets used to something and refuses to change, kind of like the whole Vista thing When i have finally mastered XP, it sucks, but I will get with the times eventually = ). Thank you so much for the advice.
lerchcon wrote: It sounds like LOR2 is a great program, like I said when I have the money I will just have to break down and buy it.
If you've just downloaded the free trial, and are comparing it to Vixen... I can see what led you to believe Vixen is better. There are some points you need to consider when making the decision to purchase the LOR software package. Currently, LOR S2 is a free upgrade to the software package. If you purchase it now, it won't cost you more for the upgrade. If you own the software license prior to the full licensed production release of S2, you will own S2. However, if you wait until after the release, S2 will be priced higher than LOR Software. Based on the discussions about this in the past... and all the best guesses I can conjure up... I'm betting there will be a difference in price of between $30 to $50. (Don't quote me, it's a guess from someone who has nothing to do with LOR's business plan...!)
Just something to think of.
Jeff
____________________ Evan... Are you at home resting yet? I'm very glad you're feeling better!
